North Reading Engineering HiFi Forum

HIFI LOUDSPEAKERS => Horn Loaded Systems => Topic started by: nre_admin on Jul 19, 2023, 08:13 AM

Title: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: nre_admin on Jul 19, 2023, 08:13 AM
I received the tweeter assembly below for measurements.  It's a B&C DE120-8 with an Aluminum horn flare fabricated by Dave Ault. The flare is two pieces bolted together with Allen hd machine screws.  It's pretty stout, a hog-out from either thick plate or bar stock.

HF_1.jpg

HF_2.jpg

Here's a side by side with the sad little EV T35.  The Klipschorn, LaScala and Belle used the EV T35 for decades until it was NLA from EV.  Klipsch, rather than designing or sourcing a resepctable tweeter, decided to replicate the Avedon unit. 

HF_4.jpg

 

 

Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: nre_admin on Jul 19, 2023, 08:56 AM
Nearfield measurements were taken as shown in the setup below.  The mic and baffle, once spotted, were not moved during all the measurements taken, the power amplifier (Crown D-75) was set and not touched.  Response plots were made using CLIO 12 at a sampling rate of 192kHz.

T35

HF_6.jpg

B&C with horn flare assy

HF_5.jpg

The B&C website has the datasheet for the DE120 mounted to a B&C horn.  Here's the published plot from the data sheet.

factory_response.jpg

Here's the no-net measured response of the B&C with the horn flare, similar to the factory response.  There's a peak in the response around 16.5kHz.

HF_NF_response_1.jpg


Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: nre_admin on Jul 19, 2023, 09:09 AM
First iteration of the network used on the both tweeter assemblies.

NRE_net_1.jpg

Here's the measured response on the B&C assy, the net produces an 18dB/octave slope starting around 8kHz.  For the Klipschorn, the presumed mid-HF crossover is about 6kHz.

net_response_1.jpg

Here's the same set of measurements with the T35 and its net response superimposed.  Under identical conditions the B&C assy has higher sensitivity thus requiring either padding of the output or turning the wick up on the mid horn output.

T35_NF_net_response_1.jpg
Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: nre_admin on Jul 19, 2023, 09:16 AM
Here's mods to the network shown above.  The Blue response is the original with C1 set to 1.5uF. 

NRE_net_2.jpg

And corresponding responses of the B&C unit.  The mods maintain the 18db/oct attenuation slope.

HF_NF_net_response_3.jpg
Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: nre_admin on Jul 20, 2023, 08:29 AM
Impedance, suspended, of the B&C horn assy


Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: nre_admin on Jul 20, 2023, 08:35 AM
B&C Impedance comparison to the T35.

B&C_T35_Z.jpg

B&C_T35_Z_1.jpg 
Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: Deang on Jul 21, 2023, 09:45 AM
Nice.

Looks like the 1.5uF will work just fine. Did you receive my email concerning Mike's trap for the peak?

200uh + 8 ohm + .47uf

Looks like if the driver is padded down 3dB, the peak is probably easy enough to live with.
Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: nre_admin on Jul 23, 2023, 08:40 AM
Couple of plots showing effect of a series LCR on the network response.  Lowering the magnitude of L2 pushes the notch a bit higher in this case 15.6kHz to 18.9kHz.

revised_LCR_3.jpg

revised_LCR.jpg 
Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: nre_admin on Jul 25, 2023, 06:39 AM
The LCR knocks the resonance down a bit from the net response with no LCR.   

B&C_net.jpg 
Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: mboxler on Jul 26, 2023, 05:03 PM
Picked up a pair of used Crites CT-120's this morning, and was interested in the how it compared to the SMAHL.  SMAHL in RED, CT-120 in GREEN.  Both hung off a 6khz third order Butterworth filter.

The 16khz spike is less pronounced on the CT-120.  The subsequent roll off is much less.

Mike



SMAHL vs CT-120 ALK Tweeter Filter.jpg
Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: DaveA on Aug 05, 2023, 08:45 PM
Quote from: mboxler on Jul 26, 2023, 05:03 PMPicked up a pair of used Crites CT-120's this morning, and was interested in the how it compared to the SMAHL.  SMAHL in RED, CT-120 in GREEN.  Both hung off a 6khz third order Butterworth filter.

The 16khz spike is less pronounced on the CT-120.  The subsequent roll off is much less.

Mike



SMAHL vs CT-120 ALK Tweeter Filter.jpg

  Hi Mike,
  Curious to know if you tested the two in free air. A part of the equation here is the tunnel the CT-120 goes through which the SMAHL does not.
Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: mboxler on Aug 06, 2023, 08:06 AM
If I understand your question, my Khorns have the Z-Bracket K77M's.  I had a pair of CT-125's with
Z-Bracket's so I just transferred those to the CT-120's.  The CT-120 horns are flush with the front of the top hat baffle.

Mike
Title: Re: B&C DE120-8 Replacement tweeter for Klipsch K77
Post by: DaveA on Aug 06, 2023, 05:39 PM
That is what I was looking for. Thanks